Originally by: oniplE

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Originally by: Hydrogen

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Anyway, you are obviously biased and clueness, there is no point in "complaining" here idd cuz its obviously filled with curse fanboys screaming about a ship that used to be a solopwnmobile and now is just a good ship.

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Every try killing stuff with a pilgrim? I think not.

Originally by: Feng Schui

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Edited by: Feng Schui on 17/11/2007 01:00:07

well.. just fought a vagabond (i know, i know, usually, on TQ, its a draw due to TD + transversal).

vagabond maintained around 2,000 transversal, and still hit me with his AC's (using tracking speed disruption scripts). lol.. so, now, not only are TD's worthless against missle boats and drone boats, but they are useless against turret boats now as well \o/

farewell amarr recon. wish ccp would give me back that training time.

edit:

found this on the "Pilgrim still sucks thread".. so we can get a yellow line with a cynical response, but nothing on the real threads?

Originally by: CCP Atropos

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Thankyou for your astute insights into the current state of the Amarr recons, in particular the Pilgrim.

However, making many threads on the same topic will not urge us into changing the ship.

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Originally by: EeViLbOrNe ChIlDhAsPaWnD

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welkom to being Amarr, we get nerf'd at every turn, about twice as much as everyone else...

this is why i say, if you can pvp with Amarr, you are teh pwn...

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Originally by: Depp Knight

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Minmie recons will win a web battle against any bs
Gal recons will win a damp battle against any bs
Cal recons will win a jamming battle against any bs
Amarr recons will not win a nos battle against any bs. Large nos's/neuts are as good as a bonused med nos/net on the amarr recons. Slightly less cap drain per sec but way more range.

I see this is a huge problem under the current nos script.

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Originally by: Feng Schui

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This should probably be at the top, since CCP Zulu claims he reads the ships and modules forums.

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Originally by: Madla Mafia

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Pilgrim and Curse are both up on my hangar wall as decoration. They need love, or they are staying there.

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Originally by: Depp Knight

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Everyday hurts being a Pilgrim pilot. Maybe the only thing we can do is get a petition going and email it. Who shall start it. We can start it right now.

Just put your name down that you want the pilgrim to be boosted as soon as possible and ill send it away. But we really need more numbers. Or we can sit here and just say the same stuff over and over. Up to you but atm we all know the pilgrim is like HD-DVD. Dead and looking like it wont come back.

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Originally by: Zhulik

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I like them the way they are, thank you very much :)

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Originally by: Kingwood

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In all honesty though, I think the Sacrilege will be nerfed first.

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Originally by: Kingwood

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Edited by: Kingwood on 10/01/2008 15:19:35
Edited by: Kingwood on 10/01/2008 15:19:05
I am honestly thinking about just giving up on Amarr and skill either Gallente or Minmatar Cruiser to 5 also. No sense to keep betting on a dead horse. CCP Zulupark is Caldari, so not gonna choose that race.

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Originally by: Kruel

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I've been using a nano Pilgrim. It's good for catching frigs! Not sure it's good for anything else though.

Just end this CCP and give it a friggin range bonus already.

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Originally by: EvilFree

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The only thing I ask to keep me happy in a Pilgrim is a boost to nos/neut range.

At present this ship is useless in gangs due to the crap range on it.

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Originally by: Grytok

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There was a good suggestion over in the Game Development section of these forums.

Advanced Energy Emission Systems (Rank 8)
Advanced operation of energy transfer array and other energy emission systems. 10% range bonus to energy emission weapons per skill level.
Skill Requirements: Energy Emission Systems LvL 5

This would give 18.9 km on a T2-NOS/Neut with max skills, and would let you stay comfortable out of web-range.

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Originally by: Cailais

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Grytok

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There was a good suggestion over in the Game Development section of these forums.

Advanced Energy Emission Systems (Rank 8)
Advanced operation of energy transfer array and other energy emission systems. 10% range bonus to energy emission weapons per skill level.
Skill Requirements: Energy Emission Systems LvL 5

This would give 18.9 km on a T2-NOS/Neut with max skills, and would let you stay comfortable out of web-range.

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But then everyone would get range bonus on amarr ew.

Should we add advanced extra web range, ecm and damp skills aswell?

I think ccp should fix the damn ship instead.

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No, because the other recons bonuses to web range, ecm and damps already allow them to operate outside of web, and indeed warp scramble/dis range: in fact thats the point.
Hence its a very valid suggestion.

(Oh and Amarr EW is Tracking Disruptors, not neut/nos which is a speciality module bonus)

C.

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Originally by: Sofring Eternus

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Grytok

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There was a good suggestion over in the Game Development section of these forums.

Advanced Energy Emission Systems (Rank 8)
Advanced operation of energy transfer array and other energy emission systems. 10% range bonus to energy emission weapons per skill level.
Skill Requirements: Energy Emission Systems LvL 5

This would give 18.9 km on a T2-NOS/Neut with max skills, and would let you stay comfortable out of web-range.

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But then everyone would get range bonus on amarr ew.

Should we add advanced extra web range, ecm and damp skills aswell?

I think ccp should fix the damn ship instead.

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There already are skills for extra ECM and Damp range, just like TD's.

Long Distance Jamming(4): 10% optimal per level to ECM, TP, TD, RSD
Frequency Modulation(3): 10% falloff per level to ECM, TP, TD, RSD

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Originally by: Grytok

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Sofring Eternus

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Grytok

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There was a good suggestion over in the Game Development section of these forums.

Advanced Energy Emission Systems (Rank 8)
Advanced operation of energy transfer array and other energy emission systems. 10% range bonus to energy emission weapons per skill level.
Skill Requirements: Energy Emission Systems LvL 5

This would give 18.9 km on a T2-NOS/Neut with max skills, and would let you stay comfortable out of web-range.

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But then everyone would get range bonus on amarr ew.

Should we add advanced extra web range, ecm and damp skills aswell?

I think ccp should fix the damn ship instead.

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There already are skills for extra ECM and Damp range, just like TD's.

Long Distance Jamming(4): 10% optimal per level to ECM, TP, TD, RSD
Frequency Modulation(3): 10% falloff per level to ECM, TP, TD, RSD

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Yeah my bad, I meant more like range bonus to web and scramble for example. It would be silly wouldnt it?

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I don't know for sure, would it be really bad to have Advanced Skills to improve range on Webs and Scrams?

/me likes

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Originally by: Gods Coldblood

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I do not think any recons should have a hac tank either and i still donÆt think there supposed to be solo wtf own ships

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Originally by: Gods Coldblood

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Originally by: Hydrogen

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Originally by: Gods Coldblood

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I personally think all amarr pilots seem to want all their ships redone.. Each race has weaknessÆs, amarr likes to moan about theirs the most... I know some really good amarr pilots, even after some nerfs they have used their knowledge of the game and still made an effective setup whether its solo pvp or gang warfare..

I do not think any recons should have a hac tank either and i still donÆt think there supposed to be solo wtf own ships

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There are enough Amarr whine threads. It is not even hard to find those. As long as you do not have any constructive addition based on facts, or arguments,... for that long please just refrain from posting here.

This is - if you had the time to read - an Amarr Recon thread. Any construcitve addition or critic welcome - Trolls please post elsewhere.

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haha sorry if i upset u but im not trolling, u are if u ask me!! The tank on ANY recon is their bonus to ewar, yes, EWAR.. If u fail to realise this then lol. So if i am right in thinking u want the curse to have a tank like a full tanked hac plus the use of ewar at the same time???..
U fail to understand what i was saying it was a constructive criticism, ur just hurt because u cant solo pvp in it with a 99% probability of wining aginst a good pvper....

In a small gang warfare the curse or pilgrim are still very very effective..

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Originally by: Gods Coldblood

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I have one question tho; If the pilgrim can use a covert ops cloak do u think its fair to let it have a tank of a curse?

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Originally by: Kadoes Khan

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Quote:

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I am annoyed with seeing amarr are broke threads all the time when i know amarr are actually really good race to be.. I think the film http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=688507 here really proves it..

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Do you see people arguing that the Armageddon is not a good ship? In fact I think it's been pointed at several times its one of the exceptions in the Amarr fleet that are actually quite powerful. This thread isn't about the Armageddon it's about the Pilgrim and to a lesser extent the curse.

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Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon

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I agree.. nerf the curse, boost the pilgrim

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Originally by: Riaz Qaadir

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I agree something is needed for the Pilgrim, but i'm not sure if there is an issue with the Curse with its combination of mobility and ability to alpha a ships cap.

Pilgrim I would probably try to improve the cap warfare parts of the ship by doing:
1) Add ship role bonus reducing cap use of neuts.
2a) Then either increase the amount bonus of nos/neuts
or
2b) Change the bonus to ROF so that you increase the chance of hitting a nos cycle when they have more cap than you or neuting before they have chance to use all the cap from a cap booster.

Not sure if this is enough but I think its a good starting point to improving the Pilgrim.

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Originally by: Sean Faust

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So let me get this straight... You're complaining that a ship designed to function solely as a SUPPORT ship cant be a solopwnmobile?

Wow.. I'm shocked

NONE of the ewar ships were designed to be "solo" pvp ships, or even high damage ships. None of them were ever designed or intended for use as anything more than SUPPORT. Understand this and you'll see that they aren't as broken as you might think.

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Originally by: Firkragg

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Sean Faust

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So let me get this straight... You're complaining that a ship designed to function solely as a SUPPORT ship cant be a solopwnmobile?

Wow.. I'm shocked

NONE of the ewar ships were designed to be "solo" pvp ships, or even high damage ships. None of them were ever designed or intended for use as anything more than SUPPORT. Understand this and you'll see that they aren't as broken as you might think.

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Support ship with 12km neuts? You fail.

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Agreed pilgrim cant do much solo anymore and its rubbish in gangs due to its small engagement range.

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Originally by: Grytok

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...

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Originally by: Depp Knight

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Signed. Enough is enough. There are some great ideas in this thread. Its really about picking which one. A simple changed like the pilgrim losing its dmg bonus for nos/neut range is one of them.

Cannot be any simplier than that.

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Originally by: Rodj Blake

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If the Pilgrim lost it's drone damage bonus in favour of a range bonus, this forum would be full of people complaining that it had been nerfed and could no longer kill anything.

And they'd have a very good point.

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Originally by: Grytok

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I can't repeat myself often enough.

Removing the dronedamage bonus is a big NoNo.

To fix the Pilgrim by giving it range and not making the Curse obsolete, you just have to switch around the NOS/Neut bonus on the Pilgrim from amount to range.

Pilgrim would do it's job perfectly fine, but the Curse would still beat it in the CapWarfare as it simply destroys tons more.

Note: A Pilgrim without the amont-bonus would still be able to run a Rep + Scram + TDs or your MWD without a CapBooster. Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

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Originally by: Kal'Kalagan

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If you give the Pilgrim a Nos/neut range bonus (which I believe it does need), it wil be overpowered as it will have tank crippling neut abilities from safe ranges and enough mid slots to fit a a massive array of EW. You probably couldn't nano it effectively but 6 mids would give it insane EW strength on top of its ability to warp and position while cloaked.


Comments?

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Originally by: Diomidis

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If the Covert Cyno original idea is obsolete, other Races will ask for another "Role Bonus" also, and that won't OP the Pilgrim as a Recon. It will still field sub-par eWar for using in a gang. And should other Recons get a role bonus that complements their ewar bonuses aswell, the Pilgrim will be even more "use-less" for gangs.

So all-in-all you insist on meh solo-capability boosts that WOULD NEVER happen, or not-so-clever bonus changes that SHOULD NEVER happen...

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Originally by: Cailais

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CCP in their infinite wisdom and limitless stubborness just refuse to admit they 'forgot' about these ships and even more damningly refuse to do anything about it.

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Originally by: Vadimik

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Edited by: Vadimik on 27/03/2008 18:46:12

Originally by: Reto

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what ppl want for the amarr recons is simply to juicy. you want to suck away a bc's cap in 30 secs, jam and gun it down and cloak afterwars while also being almost immune to other kinds of EW.
it is simply not alright and gives you too much advantages and almost no single disadvantage.
whining is dumb in this case and wont change anything even if you make this thread twice as big. ccp isnt dumb and does not give in to large whine threads but reasonable and fair ideas.

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Erm, sorry, but something like a 40%/level to nos/neut range with 15%/level to amount (5% less than curse) [or a 20%/level to range and 20%/level to amount] is exactly consistent with all other recons in this game. All force recons get exactly the same bonuses to E-war and only lack a pathetic 5% damage bonus on one of their split weapon systems.

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Originally by: Umar Khattab

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Yeah, falcons are just fa*ggy ships, let's face it.

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Originally by: Horny girl1

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haha, after nano nerf... curse will be only good in station....
Amar recons are really bad LOL

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Originally by: Caelum Dominus

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A Curse is a demanding ship to fit and fly, but once you get it right there's no going back. It's an awesome ship, and I daresay that anyone who doesn't agree have yet to fly one that's fitted properly.

I agree about your points on the Pilgrim, though.

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Originally by: Caelum Dominus

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Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 17/04/2008 07:15:44

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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You know that's a classic. What you mean is that with top skills the curse doesn't suck while other recons are ok with ok skills, good with good skills and awsome with awsome skills. Curse is just ok with awsome skills. It doesn't mean it is balanced with the power of caldari and minmatar recons.

This is exactly what people claimed about other amarr ships. They were wrong. Amarr got boosts left and right, because they were wrong. Wrong.

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I think anyone with half a brain would draw a more reasonable conclusion from a post that doesn't even contain the word "skill". Let me rephrase for the sake of those who don't:

The Curse is a demanding ship to fit and fly in terms of player skill, since it relies entirely on manipulating something you cannot monitor. Once you get it right, however, there's no going back. It's an awesome ship, and I daresay that anyone who doesn't agree have yet to fly one that's fitted properly. Most people seem to be living in the past and insisting on a NOS-oriented fit, and it's a ridiculously bad idea. The Curse remains powerful.

Here's a little something to get you started - fit at least two Neutralizers, no Nosferatu and certainly no capacitor booster.

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Originally by: Opertone

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people under estimate the curses power with tracking disruptors
tracking disruptors shut down the best of the best turrets

nowadays the tracking disruptors affect the falloff... with 3 tracking disruptors on a non specialized ship i could effectively stop enemy turret fire... by limiting their range to 10 km

curse can limit enemie's range on turrets to 8 kms, shut down small ships with neutralizers and feed on large ship's capacitor with vampires...

missile boats are shield tanked, shield tank is fragile and cap intensive, normally missile boats do not have room or power grid for cap booster, so it is easy to shut down a smaller missile boat

the only ship which curse will have problems with is the sacrilege - non shield tanked, cap injected missile boat and drake - massively tanked missile boat, tank of which can not be broken by cap warfare

what concerns a curse versus a raven - the curse can break the ravens active tank with ease, but it can not withstand incoming fire, some possible way is feeding on the ravens tank and tanking the curse as a response

curse can solo all frigates, all turret ships and majority of industrials
curse only can't take - Ravens, sacrileges, drakes

curse role is not so bad, what do you think?

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Originally by: Opertone

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you haven't tried a DISRUPTING on a MEGATHRONE

go try for yourself, you will see that you can keep megathrone outside of the turret range with an overheated web, you can MWD out of megathrones range


you just never use turret disruptors, and you should

curse >>> all turret ships

webbs >> MWD zealot

go learn something before saying bad things

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Originally by: Opertone

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check the tracking distruptors again, use the range disruption again

curse MWDs faster than a MEGA
curse can bring MEGA's range to 12 km, it can stay 30 km away...

it is simple

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Originally by: BobMoo22

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Opertone

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check the tracking distruptors again, use the range disruption again

curse MWDs faster than a MEGA
curse can bring MEGA's range to 12 km, it can stay 30 km away...

it is simple

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Not it's not simple.

THIS is simple:

To be able to prevent ANY lock at all on the MEGA eventhough it has ECCM from 150km distance.

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and do 0 damage in the process...

The curse is totally safe from a normal thron at 30k that it might as well be at 150k. The thron's guns can't hit it. The thron's drones (ogre's) can't get near it. At the same time, the curse is killing the thron, while the caldari recon is what, trying to stare then to death?

The curse is balanced. It is by far the best solo recon. It is a great ship to fly. It is perfect as it is.

The pilgrim on the other hand...

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Originally by: Madla Mafia

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Originally by: Caelum Dominus

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I'd much rather fly a Neutralizer-fitted Curse over a Sacrilege for purposes of solo PvP anyday, because the sheer destructive power of a perma-running Neutralizer and 300+ DPS is far more effective than a Sacrilege doing 400-some DPS but lacking the many abilities of a Curse to stay out of harm's way and shut his opponent(s) down entirely.

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How do you get 300 dps out of a curse?

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Originally by: Etho Demerzel

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Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 17/04/2008 23:37:37

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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You're taking things out of context. Curse is worthless in a gang if you have options to field ecm and web recons. Curse is worthless solo if you can fly hacs like sacrilege. Yeah it is a pretty worthless ship.

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Look at the bright side, the Curse is not an Arazu or a Lachesis. THOSE are worthless ships for real...

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Originally by: Caelum Dominus

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Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 18/04/2008 08:17:51

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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He is making stuff up like the majority of the anti amarr squad.

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Right.

The lack of research you've put into the Curse before you commenced your whining crusade is blatantly obvious.
The Curse isn't as straightforward to fly as the Sacrilege. I guess that makes it hard on some people.

I'm done here, this isn't going anywhere.

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Originally by: Caelum Dominus

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Sure, I wouldn't mind others having a chance when they are faced with the sheer destructive power of a Curse. ^^

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Originally by: Caelum Dominus

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Is that so? I had no idea. Either way it's not going to happen, since I'm deep in 0.0 and so is my Curse.

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Originally by: Riho

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i probably would kill your zealot or make you run in my curse :P but... still 7 days to amarr cruiser 5... so it has to wait a while :P

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Originally by: Riho

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my fit is nano and 1 td :) what is fine as i know exactly how to fight a zealot :P

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Originally by: Hydrogen

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Edited by: Hydrogen on 19/04/2008 09:09:51
Actually I do not like the attitude of CCP balance team:

1. things are changed inconsistently (esspecially in case of cloaks)
2. to patch a major problem, they apparently do not consider the impact on small groups, eg. NOS to Amarr Recons
3. apparent mistakes result in silence by CCP if only the group of people voicing the fact is small enough
4. patches rush in fast, fixes to patches take loooooong, up to 1-2 years, eg. lower EM resist on ships after Laser nerf - how long did they take for the fix?? 3 years? Or was it 4?
5. ...

The attitude by CCP towards the affected players really bothers me.

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Originally by: Depp Knight

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Current crying at my curse setup. It just isnt effective anymore.

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Originally by: Julius Romanus

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Depp Knight

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Current crying at my curse setup. It just isnt effective anymore.

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Wait for nano nerf for the final nail....

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As zulu has described his intentions, yep. He might as well have said "like the curse" at the end of his description of his plan for ships to unnano.

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Originally by: Red Thunder

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btw, the nano nerf wont effect this ship too much as it only has 2 of each speed mod. it will have the biggest effect on things like nano phoons that rely on 3 or 4 OD and 3 polys etc

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Originally by: Red Thunder

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we need nano ships in the game...they are the ships which rely a lot on player skill, as pvp is very fast and you must process a lot of infomation. Removing nano ships is just promoting the boring bs slugfights which requires 0 player skill, and will be the death of small corps as they cannot possibly fight.

CCP will not fully nerf nano ships, as they would lose thousands of players, including myself.

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Originally by: Red Thunder

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you obviously dont have much expirience in decent nano gangs trying to take on larger gangs....engagements like this are far from easy.

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Originally by: Red Thunder

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so you prefer blob warfare where you win out of sheer numbers instead of skill?

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Originally by: Feng Schui

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Over 1000 posts and still no acknowledgment from CCP.

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Originally by: Tarron Sarek

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Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff

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A paper thin ship whose primary function (neut/nos) forces it to operate within web range?

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Well this could be fixed by giving the Pilgrim the Nos/Neut range bonus instead of the amount bonus.

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Originally by: Tarron Sarek

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Webs and Scrams are not racial EW, just like Nos. TPs are (like ECM, RSDs and TDs). So this is a bit apples and oranges. Especially since TPs (/RSDs/TDs) actually need their strength bonus.

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Originally by: Jalif

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Cause if you don't, nobody will fly the curse anymore because the pilgrim has the ability to fit a covert-ops cloak which curse cant.

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Originally by: The ArchWarder

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Range isnt everything, and most of you are probably to lazy to fit your pilgrims for todays eve.

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Originally by: C0NRAD

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I would like to point out there is nothign wrong with the pilgrim in its current form, as a combat operationship it operates fine, which cause the dilema that the curse which is supposed to be our combat operation recon fails.

Now simply changing the pilgrim to a range bonus really dosne;t help this situation, no matter how much you buffed the curse, range bonus just inpowers the pilgrim further, especially versus things such as vagabonds.

How ever id liek to point out a few things, about our opossing races, Rapier > Huginn thansk to the extra low, and again the arazu is much prefered over the lachesis thank to the extra lows and cloak. Now all the combat recon ships got extra meds which is fine if i actually wanted to use said meds for a shield tank. But to be perfectly honest after fitting all my Ewar, points, web, im out of shield tanking slots.

In my opinnion the pilgrim is fine, what fails epically is the curse and that needs altering. Its not the comparrison in tank that needs altering its the comparrison in DPS over EWAR. The lowest DPS boats are the caldari which boast the highest ewar potential of all recons. the curse and pilgrim are at the other extreme they lack the Ewar self protection but have a highish DPS to cover for it. Now comparing with the Lachesis and Huginn both these boats have more DPS on paper due to other damage bonuses. But these bonuses arn;t really used a huge amount due to the fitting constraints in CPU and powergrid to really maximise these fits. But they are available options.

Perhaps a better fix would be to give the curse a Launcher rate of fire bonus over the tracking disruptor bonus. This would bring it more into line with the philopshy of the khanid ships. At the end of the day no recon is supposed to be a substitute for a HAC, there usefull assets for removing tactical advantages the enemy has, be that speed, Tank, DPS what ever.

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Originally by: Diomidis

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The Pilgrim is broken via the Medium Nos/Neut modules, not it's hull bonuses.

Perhaps adding special bonuses for it to use Heavy Neuts/NOSs without an amount bonus, but with less cap usage bonuses (and fitting requirements of course) would make more sense: 24km range, but with enough cap killing potential to really threaten BSs/BCs.
People suggesting range over amount simply do not understand how NOS/Neuts work...
And adding 3x ewar related bonuses is in-consistent to other cloaking recons...

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Originally by: Frankinator

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Um, you obviously havent flown the Pilgrim on the test server lately. If anything its better now with the nano nerf.

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Originally by: VJ Maverick

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Originally by: Ashaz

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Give range to pilgrim like all other force recons. NOW!

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yea what he/she said.
How hard can it be to realize that this is the main issue with this ship?

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I disagree. I prefer the drone bonus over a range bonus on this ship any day, especially with the upcoming changes. A close range, AB fitted pilgrim will be downright scary after the next patch.

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Originally by: Aleus Stygian

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Edited by: Aleus Stygian on 04/08/2008 20:53:58

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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it already has a drone bonus and it needs a drone dmg bonus because it doesnt have its highs free to put weapons in like other recons.

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Better then to add a highslot, and next let Recons work better as utility ships.

The Pilgrim is meant to operate within 10 km. That's why it has a cloak. And it quite purposefully has higher DPS than other Recons. The real problems that it faces is slipping away from HACs coming at it from out of its range so that it can't jam or cloak, the lack of an effective ECM, and a very pointed weakness against missiles. And these things should be solved through other measures.

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Originally by: Aleus Stygian

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Higher dps then other recons? You have any idea how much dps a huginn has? After the nerf pilgrim and curse dont have anything near "good" dps.

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Why don't you tell me? Preferably assuming highest skills possible for both ships.

Anyway, the greater problem is missiles being able to **** everything over, including drones.

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Originally by: Madla Mafia

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After the new patch, both Amarr recons might become hangar decoration. Onto...a new class of ships that isn't worthless?

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Originally by: Boz Well

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Will the pilgrim really suffer that much post-patch, assuming CCP's wonderful changes go through as planned? It still won't be much for gang work, I'll definitely give you that, but for ganking it seems like it'd do decently well

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Originally by: Rudy Metallo

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Stop *****ing because the curse and pilgrim arent solopwnmobiles any more. They're still an invaluble asset to any gang, which was their intended role as Cov Ops and the role in which all Cov Ops flourish.

Does the Rapier have more DPS than the Pilgrim? Yes. Would I rather have a pilgrim in a gang with me. You bet your ****ing balls I would. What would I rather have, a stationary target that can rep itself til friends arrive, or a slightly more mobile target that mostly just flails hopelessly while our guns rip it to shreds?

The Amarr recons are not hanger decorations, they are in their intended role. Quit yer *****ing.

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Originally by: Commander Krispy

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Originally by: Madla Mafia

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Yeah, until the Pilgrim gets range (or some other boost I can't think of now) then:

Pilgrim = Hangar Decoration

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LOL you're crazy to say that ! Pilgrim not bad if you know how to play it !

I fly curse and pilgrim, and for me pilgrim is a good close combat ship, and good for assassin job that's all !

Not the same role than curse ...

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Originally by: Angelina Arwen

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Originally by: Commander Krispy

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Wth are you on about? I can rip your pilgrim in half with my sac any day and my sac can solo anything you can and more.

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In 1vs1 you're sac can kill me yes, but you have to find me first ;)

Pilgrim choose his target ... not the target who choose pilgrim :p

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And apart from t1 cruisers, what targets are you choosing again?

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Originally by: El Yatta

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Right now, the pilgrim is hopeless.

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